When he and his wife started their family, Decker Ngongang put a successful career in philanthropy and nonprofits on hold so he could stay at home with his two young daughters. Which is amazing. But it shouldn’t be. Because it should be normal. Because we don’t have the same reaction when we learn of a woman staying at home with her kids.
I met Decker through my wife. The two of them grew up together in Charlotte. We all lived together in New York for a few years but I wish I spent more time with Decker, because every time I did—and every time I do—a great conversation was assured. One of those great conversations is below.
You’ve always been super motivated and driven—you’re a very successful guy married to a very successful woman—when you put your career on hold to focus on being a stay-at-home dad, how did you stay in touch with yourself; your goals and dreams, et cetera?
Part of it was that I had to let go of those things, to really focus on this new reality and what I was doing. Because if I was focused on those goals and dreams, it would have been easy to develop resentment for anything that stood in the way of those things. And I didn’t want to develop any kind of resentment toward my wife or the kid—at the time we just had one. So a big part of it was being cool with that new role; really leaning into that new identity. Like, “Alright. I’m Neal’s dad. I’m walking around the neighborhood, wanting my kids to recognize and know that I’m focused on them and not trying to do some other stuff.”
When did you get back into doing those things for you?
It happened naturally. It was weird. I was at a playground and a friend I knew from college was there. She asked what I was doing and I said, “I’m staying at home with the kids.”
I didn’t know she had connections to a foundation. I thought we were just shooting the shit. But then she recommended I reach out to her friend who, like me, was involved with philanthropy. And I stayed in touch with that guy for like a year. And I thought he was just picking my brain. And then he asked if I would be interested in working with him. It was purely organic. I wasn’t looking for anything.
What did you learn about your time away from the grind of work? A: What’d you learn about yourself as a person? And B: how has that informed your work as a father?
I learned how gendered parenting labor is. I learned how these support systems were built for moms. Mom’s groups. Mom’s playdates. Playgrounds. Et cetera. But once I stepped back from any kind of jealousy, like, “Why don’t they have a dad’s group?” I learned that it was gendered for a reason. It helped me learned how society is still so structured and unequal. So it got me interested in learning about that more and learning about the labor I was doing myself. And that labor is so simplified. Like, “Oh, that’s so great! You’re staying at home.” And it’s so much more nuanced that that. And there are dynamics that aren’t captured in literature.
And also you get kudos for being a stay-at-home dad. Stay-at-home moms don’t get the same appreciation.
One-hundred-percent. And also recognizing the fact of all the labor that my wife is still doing. She’s pumping. She’s working. She’s being well compensated for not being at home. And I realized, “Should I compensate for what I’m recognizing as some of these imbalances?”
I remember we were on a flight and Neal had a diaper leak. And I went to go change the diaper and I ran and changed her. And I swear to God, every flight attendant came and thanked me, they gave me free alcohol. And I didn’t want to take it because I realized that if Rhonda had done that, no one would have recognized her for it. But she made take the liquor.
I also find that people are significantly more ready, willing, and able to help me out in the world then they are to help Emily. If I’m at the playground or something, people offer help all the time. Em never gets that.
Exactly. And the other thing I realize—and this sound judgemental as hell—but some of the dad groups are real corny, and I realized that I don’t want to be a part of that. I don’t want to be a part of something that mimics mom’s groups. But the conditions aren’t the same. We have different power than they do. And I didn’t want to be a part of that. It felt like cosplay.
But I have to say, it did feel super isolating. And I think we take for granted how isolating it is and that a lot of those mom’s groups exist to stem that isolation.
I also realized that I didn’t have outlets. I didn’t have things for me. And I saw that those mom’s groups exist so that moms can stay in touch with who they are, outside of parenting.
Now that your babies are in school and daycare, how has the transition back to putting your stuff back at the fore? And how have you handled the detachment?
Once you’re cool with it, there’s also a process of trying to suss that time out. Your senses are all off. I used to hear phantom crying sounds because my brain was so attuned to a protection space. And to go from that to trying to read a book or a report, a lot of it is learning how to shut one side off and turn one side on. Having them at daycare accelerated that process. But it was tough.
And then, it’s like, “Am I developing a new side of myself? Are you reconnecting with your old self?” And how much of that do you trust?
But then Covid hit. We had our youngest in daycare for like a month and I was going to have this time and then boom, Covid hits and we’re stuck at home. And I’m back as daddy daycare but with two kids. And I couldn’t go anywhere and Rhonda was working from home so it… I think it’s fair to say it was traumatic. It just fucked my senses up.
I had just started working at the foundation but I became the expendable one, because I was used to being expendable. Our lives were set up for that expendability.
One question I ask everyone is “What kind of dad was your dad and what of his parenting style are you carrying forward? What are you consciously trying to avoid?” But your dad wasn’t in the picture much when you were growing up. So I guess the question remains. But if you want to answer that in context of your mother, please do. Or if you want to reflect on it in the spectrum of your father, go ahead.
I think I’m realizing now that I had whole bunch of parents. And not just when we were kids. Not just my aunts and my uncles and my mom. But now I’m influenced as a father by a bunch of my friends and how they carry themselves in the world. I look at how they’re looking for support as a parent. How they talk about wanting and how they talk about what they do for other people. And so learning what does and doesn’t work for me through that, hat’s been a huge influence.
But for my dad, what I learned most from him was that I was directly affected by what was affecting him, which had a lot to do with, ultimately, him not being there. My dad’s an immigrant and his life situation was such that he had to prioritize not being there or was afraid or embarrassed to be there. And that’s what I took away from it; that my daughters are cognizant of the things that are impacting my life but that I’m not transferring that to them; not making that part of what they’re experiencing. Just being mindful of what’s going on in my life so I’m not mistakenly passing it on.
And I realized that parenting is just about grabbing lessons from everything around you and applying it. And I think the notion of fatherhood and fathering is very narrow and it doesn’t capture all the different things that go into people growing. I think about community and one of the things I’m looking to do is grab time with some of the young folks I know that are doing dope stuff—and I say “young folks” but I mean people in their twenties, early-thirties—and they’re becoming good people and really interesting people, and I ask them, “What do you remember that worked and didn’t work about how you were raised? However you were raised, whatever parent or guardianship situation you had, what was impactful, both positive and negative?”
Which is two-fold because they’re coming from a different place than you, as their parents are of a different generation than ours were. But also because they’re much closer to their childhoods than you or I.
Yeah, exactly. But I think about it not just impacting my parenting but better understanding a generation. Because I think about it like, “These are going to be Neal and Audrey’s bosses.” And can I understand the people that are my kids’ generation ahead.
The main thing I try to do is think about who are my mentors and who are the people that influence me today. And I sit back and try to acknowledge that it’s not just “motherhood” or “fatherhood,” because those things are so narrowly defined.